April 22, 2024

7 thoughts on “Illegal Pesticide Use – Neem Oil – Ecocert Canada – Quebec Organic Agriculture Permitted Substances List

  1. Hello,
    Ecocert Canada is a certification body that is accredited by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. We do voluntary monitoring of organic farms and food processors according to the Canadian Organic Standards, which is managed by the CFIA and applies to edible agricultural products.
    The document that you have posted on your page from Ecocert are completely outdated and no longer in use. For updated info please refer to our website http://www.ecocertcanada.com. You can also look into the permitted substances list published by the Canadian Organic Office at http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/ongc-cgsb/programme-program/norms-standards/internet/bio-org/documents/032-0311-2008-eng.pdf
    Neem is permitted in organic agriculture. If you wish to share your concerns about the use of Neem oil please contact the CFIA and the Canadian Organic Office directly.
    If you have more questions about organic agriculture and organic certification please feel free to contact me through the Ecocert Canada website.
    Kind regards,
    Caroline Levesque
    Customer Service

  2. Thanks for responding Caroline.

    If you are indicating that Neem Oil is exempt from the PMRA registration process please provide a link.

    The EPA has registered products with the Active Ingredient Neem Oil


    The information gathered within the original post was retrieved in March of 2011 directly from the EcoCert Website. Several days after this posting the EcoCert link provided above went dead.


    A copy of the contents of this link is embedded within the post above.


    Altought you have provided a link to the Canadian General Standards Board Permitted Substances List and a more up to date listing of products, if neem oil is used in Canada without being registered as a pesticide  it is still illegal, unless there is an exemption, which we are unaware of.

    One 1 product has been registered in Canada containing Neem Oil for Pest Control, TreeAzin and it is only an EMERGENCY REGISTRATION.


  3. Hello,
    The permitted substances list is only for the individual substances and not for formulated products. If you take the leaves of the neem tree and make an infusion, for example, with no other substances (chemical or otherwise) you could use it. The organic standards don't deal with products per say, only individual substances. Sometimes a substance is approved for use in organic agriculture however the products on the market may also include substances that are not permitted in organics. The neem oil on the market may have a toxic emulsifier or other ingredient which makes it unusable.
    Ecocert doesn't advocate the use of particular products, we can however verify that a product is compliant with the organic standards. We are not involved with the registration of pesticide products with Health Canada.
    Our website has recently been updated and the document that is posted above is no longer in use. This document was created with information from the CARTV, which is the regulatory body in the province of Québec. You can access their website at http://www.cartv.gouv.qc.ca. Quebec is the only provice that regulates organics within the province and they have their own set of standards.
    It is great to raise awareness about such topics and to share information with as many people as possible.
    Take care,

  4. Clearly, Madame Lévesque is using the « Quebec has its own standards » CWAP in order to deflect attention from the fact that RECOMMENDING or USING NEEM OIL for the purposes indicated by her organization is ILLEGAL under Federal Law.


    There are NO Quebec jurisdictions in this matter.


    Home-Made-Pest-Control-Concoctions and Recommendations concerning products like Neem Oil VIOLATE FEDERAL LAW !


    It is a VIOLATION OF FEDERAL LAW to recommend or sell products for controlling pests that are NOT registered under the FEDERAL Pest Control Products Act.


    If Madame Lévesque's organization recommends or sells Neem Oil with the claim that it controls pests, it technically becomes a pest control product.


    Such a claim, in either verbal or written form, regarding an UNREGISTERED product becomes technically a VIOLATION OF FEDERAL LAW.


    These Neem Oil  Pest-Control-Concoctions and Recommendations are BOGUS, and are NOT SCIENTIFICALLY TESTED.


    These Pest-Control-Concoctions and Recommendations are NOT subject to stringent, science-based evaluations, and are NOT supported by scientific research and documentation.


    If Madame Levesque's organization persists in its course of action concerning ILLEGAL Neem Oil, NORAHG will have no choice but to proceed through a series of tactical denunciations and complaints.


    STOP using Neem Oil NOW !



    National Organization Responding Against HUJE that seek to harm the Green Space Industry ( NORAHG ).

    NORAHG is a NATIONAL NON-PROFIT NON-PARTISAN organization dedicated to representing the work of RESPECTED and HIGHLY-RATED EXPERTS who promote PESTICIDE-REALISM and PESTICIDE-TRUTHS. 


  5. I don't think EcoCert is using Neem Oil, they are possibly turning a blind eye to companies registered as ECOCERT Organic  that are using unregistered or off label Neem Oil.  That is wrong. 
    The Canadian Substance List is a generic list that was adopted from other countries like, France or USA.  These countries registered (USA for sure)  Neem Oil usage, that is more than likely why Neem Oil is on the list. There is a statement in  the substances list that indicates some products may be on the list before the PMRA has acknowledged them as registered.
    Neem cannot be used as a pesticide in Canada.
    If there is an exemption for Quebec or for the Organic Industry it would be nice to have a reference to that exemption. 
    Caroline would you be able to provide us with a specific instance where neem oil is used within the Organic Industry for Pest Control?
    A little off topic but,
    I do know that pesticide bait stations for mice and rats are allowed in an Organic Industry setting, as long as the poison bait blocks are enclosed and does not contact the food.  But what if the Rat crawls up into a skid of Organic Vegetables and dies after being poisoned?  It is a confusing concept Organics.

  6. Hello Uncle Adolph,
    Ecocert is not involved in policing the use of un-registered pesticides and we don't advocate the use of any particular pest control methods. We must remain neutral as a third party certification body.
    The refference to the Québec standard was simply to inform that we did not create the content of the document that is posted above but that it comes from the Québec organic standards. I was also explaining why Québec has its own standard while other provinces do not. It was not any claim to legality or exemption.
    Having lived and worked in India on an organic farm, we used neem oil diluted in soapy water and sprayed on the leaves to treat an aphid problem. The neem tree grows naturally there and has many medicinal uses. It is seen as good luck to have a neem tree grow in your yard.
    The Organic Standards state that the farm should be treated as a whole system and that problems that arise should be treated holistically. However, as a last resort, permitted substances can be used to treat a problem that is potentially out of control and all other attempts to control the problem have failed.  Some people aren't used to this approach. We are used to taking a pill and making the symptoms go away instead of figuring out what the underlying problem is.
    In the situation that you have stated above, the bait is in a trap that will hold the animal so it is unlikely that that situation would occur. This scenario with poisoned traps is only possible if there is an infestation of rats so bad that there is no other solution. The Standards state that poisons of any kind are not permitted unless the producer obtains an exemption from their certification body. In this case the producer must provide proof that all other means were taken to treat the problem and that the bait is the last resort.
    There are many certification bodies offering organic certification services in Canada. Please feel free to research them and their approaches to permitted substances.
    I would also kindly ask you to please remove the Ecocert logo and document posted above imediately.
    If you would like to further discuss organic certification I would be happy to continue this conversation.
    Kind regards,

  7. Caroline,

    Your response is appreciated. 

    Once again we would like to point out that by being a third party certification body, you will  come across illegal pesticide use and it should be EcoCerts responsibility to point this out to its members.  How can EcoCert guarantee customer choice when members are possibly using  illegal products and claiming they are still Certified Organic?

    EcoCerts Logo has been removed from this blog posting and replaced with a link to its location.

    As for the Scribd Document you can see that  the 2009 Permitted Substance List  is floating around the internet in more than one location, not on EcoCerts website.  It has become public information.  (1 link location has been provided above) These references to the 2009 Permitted substance list will remain in Archive within this site for reference to the public. 

    The whole reason behind Pesticide Truths is to make companies and individuals aware and accountable for there mistruths and deceitful actions against Health Canada Approved Pesticides and the Green Industry in general.

    Organic is not safer.

    Neem Oil is an illegal pesticide repellent  in CANADA.  EcoCert should not be ignoring this fact.  

    I hope you are happy with our attempt to satisfy your request, if not we may press this point further as Mr. Gathercole has stated.

    Uncle Adolph.

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